Yeah, I have the same problem with Wolf. And honestly, I don't get the "weak doll" woman, even in the Victorian age. How did "women aren't as strong as men" turn into "weak passive doll"? No rural community thinks that. Or has thought that. Ever.
"No rural community thinks that. Or has thought that. Ever."
—Y'know, that raises a really interesting issue. It's the cities that govern what happens! They create the fashion trends, the cultural trends, the economic trends.
The also determine what happens politically. I happened to be studying for a month in Moscow in 1991 when the coup happened. At one point, while we were listening to the speeches at the Byely Dom (and I wasn't understanding more than the occasional word) a huge cheer went up. I asked my Russia friends what was said and they told me that some division or two in Leningrad had joined "our" side. I remember thinking that this whole thing was happening in just two cities—that the fate of people spanning eleven time zones would be determined in just those two cites.
I think rural areas should be free to govern their own affairs.
I think Naomi Wolf struggles to find her way in this crazy woke culture, but I believe her heart is in the right place. She has eaten her share of crow in the last few years. To have moved so far to the center right must have been a challenge. I'm willing to extend her some grace.
Yes, for sure. That is one of the reasons why I chose to listen…and why I was disappointed to hear that edgy-lefty style still there, warning all who would speak the wrong words.
Awww!! Thank you so much for this beautiful acknowledgement, Christopher!! I am deeply honoured. And to be in a community with such warrior women is a blessing beyond any I've known before. xo
A side share...though I did own and read Wolf's The Beauty Myth in my youth, she struck a much deeper chord for me when I discovered this talk of hers along my seeking journey, circa 2008. It's a talk on the process, a blueprint if you will, that is implemented into open societies in order to convert them into fascist police states. She has been on guard and watchful of encroaching tyranny for many years, well before the arrival of Covid. Perhaps you will enjoy...:)
Note: I can't seem to find the original post I first watched in its full-length form but here is a snippet:
Oh cool—I am adding that to my listening queue. I know there is another kitchen-cleaning in my near future. (If it's not messy now, I'm sure it will be after I cook a rack of ribs later today!) Looking forward to hearing what she says…especially knowing that it had a strong impact on you.
I guess you and I are both coming to a new place, each from what is classically called the left and right. I like this new place.
Sweet! I watched this talk of hers at the same time I watched Aaron Russo's From Freedom to Fascism. If you haven't seen it, here ya go! I didn't have a TV for many decades and would only watch documentaries. I miss the days when they were so easy to find online, pre-2010.
Is there a particular reason why it must be a certain length? Joe Rogan has proved that people will watch 16-hour long conversations! :-D
I mean, I know there is some value in being short, but I think you had a lot of cool stuff to say. Might be an interesting experiment to see what people think. If people are good with it, it'll save you editing work in the future :-)
Hahahaha....I hear you! For now, I have two reasons:
One is the amount of my time spent doing it...the zoom call itself and then the editing, rendering, uploading etc...which is all voluntary.
And I'm also thinking of the quantity of info/articles/videos that are are vying for everyone's attention ALL of the time! If I want it to be a thing that catches on and is successful, I was thinking my best bet is to make it a palatable snack vs a more time consuming meal!
But I'm open and flexible to what is best for everybody, ultimately.
I may end up putting it behind a paywall, if it seems there is enough value in it for people to want to support it monetarily. :)
I wasn't, but I had a couple of friends and girlfriends who went there in the 90s, who I knew as postgrads. That was ground zero PoMo for me. And as you rightly say, if it was that bad then...
It was crazy-bad in the early 80s when my older sister went and I visited her. It was crazy-bad in the late 80s/early 90s when my friends went and I was at U-Mass (which was also bad). I cannot even imagine what it is like now. I don't think I would even drive into the area now. They'd probably arrest me for ThoughtCrime or whiteness or something!
Sounds like about the time you visited your sister. I have so many stories but even then, I stood alone in my beliefs. I wrote a letter to the president when the madness began in 2020. Since then, it's gotten so much worse. Have you been following the story of the former Alumnae and employee who was suing the school?
So you were an undergrad there in the early 80s? I am trying to remember the names of all the dorms and mods…Greenwich, Enfield, Prescott?? and two more. Named after the towns drowned when they made the Quabbin reservoir, right?
I have not heard of any of those houses. Perhaps they have renamed them to something more social justice-y. Sigh. Whatever works... Cutter and Ziskind were two - named for donors. Gillette and the sister house Northrup I thought were also named for donors.
Men are not Oppressors everywhere. That simple minded absolutist thinking has gotten us in a world of hurt. Women can be oppressive too, as mothers. That role has no gender bias. It is easy to play the victim. Low hanging fruit. I see it as a major sign of a manipulative person. I view that attitude with great caution. Ms Wolf is so dogmatized, that i generally avoid her. it seems she is not keen on removing the contradictions of her own mind very well. One, now and then is ok. Thank you for reading this so i do not have to. she taakes toooo looooong to get to the point. too many " my feelings" are in the way.
Yes, that echoes my thoughts on her very well. But I was glad I stuck it out long enough to hear that one point of agreement. (As it happens, I was cleaning the kitchen while I listened, so I was a captive audience anyway. Plus, wait…was I doing—gasp!—'woman's work'? 🤣 )
Yes, women can absolutely be oppressors too—as mothers, and as other things as well. We should all try not to oppress anyone!
PS: I just want you to know that when I hike in the woods, I sometimes build little houses for forest fairies. I'm no fool!
Pioneer Valley in the house, and oh man do I know! I thought the local saying was "Where the coffee is strong and so are the women," but the strong women seem to have been struck dumb while gender madness has taken over. I was just at the food co-op which feels like a foreign country now plastered with trans flags (Transmania?), peopled with somber masked shoppers and staff. It's been a sad realization that conformity is a stronger force than liberty for most women. Thanks for recognizing and appreciating the warriors among us!
OMG, you are there NOW? I am so sorry. It was dripping with intolerable sanctimony back in the '80s and '90s. I cannot even imagine what it is like now. Actually, I can kind of imagine…it is the stuff of nightmares.
Too bad, because it is such a beautiful area. And I even saw the northern lights there several times (maybe that explains the lunacy—the magnetic field is thinner in that area!).
It's nutso in the colleges and flatlands, but luckily I spend most of my time in muckboots in the beautiful hills. You can't completely escape the new Puritans anywhere in MA, they've taken over town govt, schools and churches, but I take refuge with the stubborn, independent minded hilltowners. Country folk can survive ;) I will keep an eye out for those lights!
Born and bred in Southern Georgia, I've known many Steel Magnolias, who maintain femininity and strength in both their public and private life. Strength is respected as well as compassion. Speaking slowly is an advantage. It allows more thinking time per word. Not saying it's better or worse than anyone else. Just the way it is.
Exactly. I saw one rude comment that assumed that strong women lacked having feminine characteristics (and that I must be a "wimp" for liking them). Whoever that guy was, he clearly does not get it.
Or perhaps strength frightens him. I see strong women as an inspiration rather than a threat. Many male writers laud the strength of women in their works. Few laud their weakness,
In my opinion, much of how we respond to characteristics in others is set by age 5. If it leads to a happy fulfilled life, Yay! If not, we have work to do. I have work to do in that area and I hope this fellow will find a way to open his perspective a bit. He would find a lot of fun on the other side.
All I sent that didn't get through was a long response to your question of Feb 7 about my four pure theories of justice. I'll be happy to send it to you by email or snail mail.
Thank you for writing about strong women. I remained unattached for years because I frightened the opposite sex. I finally found someone who valued my strength. On Naomi Wolf, I just read her book, Facing the Beast. It is fairly telling about who she was and who she says she has become. She does a fair amount of 'mea culpa-ing' in it which makes for a satisfying read for those of us who didn't need a pill to recognize the sanctimoniousness of her former circles. However, her astonishment at how accepting and kind her new 'group' is, still feels slightly condescending. And she fails to make the next shift to her former tribe's more ominous conclusions - instead she dwells on the rejection. I can respect her willingness to admit error. But, let's move on, and break through the spell these people are under. Give us your thoughts on next moves. For all her feminist posturing, her writing didn't seem like it was coming from a terribly empowered woman.
I am very glad that you finally found a man to match your strength! (A poorly kept secret: I have an Italian grandmother living inside me who just wants everyone to get married and make bambinos.)
Very interesting insights on Wolf and her book.
I wasn't looking to dislike her in that JBP interview. I wasn't even thinking about it. But then as the first few minutes wore on, I started to hear that lefty vibe and it gave me cringey flashbacks. I set it aside so I could hear what they have to say, and it wasn't even that big a deal. But then, come Monday, I felt compelled to mention it anyway. My readers are a pretty broad group, politically, and such things do risk upsetting people. But I really think that we must never forget what the left is, and what it did over the last two centuries. We do so at our very great peril. So I still mention it once in a while, even though it is no longer my primary focus.
To your last sentence…
I wonder at times if leftism is born of trauma, resulting either from circumstances or the vicissitudes of nature. Studies have shown that people on the left are lower in sexual dimorphism (less manly men and less feminine women) than people on the right. That they are less attractive (and that even left-leaning women find conservative men more attractive). That they actually smile less than conservatives. Add in some anger about the unfairness of life's circumstances and you have a ready-made constituency for the left's "we'll get even for you" shtick.
The anger, oh, the anger. It breeds a burning arrogance and self-righteousness that has taken me completely aback at times. My challenge us to remain calm. As someone with some passion, to the point of being a character flaw from time to time, it's hard to maintain a Sowell-like demeanor.
I hear you. I have been working on taming that passion for my whole life. My wife still occasionally points out that my "enthusiasm" on a subject is causing my voice to increase in volume.🤣
I have mostly succeeded in written communication. I guess I don't get to put it to the test in face-to-face interactions much anymore.
But who has the time for that anyway? It's not a good use of one's time to try to convince a single person of something when you can spend that time making a written argument that is seen by hundreds or thousands.
I tried to answer some questions you asked me several days ago but I was unable to post my comments, perhaps because I was responding late or because my comments were too long. If you still want my answers, send me an email or snail mail address and I'll answer your questions.
Yeah, I have the same problem with Wolf. And honestly, I don't get the "weak doll" woman, even in the Victorian age. How did "women aren't as strong as men" turn into "weak passive doll"? No rural community thinks that. Or has thought that. Ever.
"No rural community thinks that. Or has thought that. Ever."
—Y'know, that raises a really interesting issue. It's the cities that govern what happens! They create the fashion trends, the cultural trends, the economic trends.
The also determine what happens politically. I happened to be studying for a month in Moscow in 1991 when the coup happened. At one point, while we were listening to the speeches at the Byely Dom (and I wasn't understanding more than the occasional word) a huge cheer went up. I asked my Russia friends what was said and they told me that some division or two in Leningrad had joined "our" side. I remember thinking that this whole thing was happening in just two cities—that the fate of people spanning eleven time zones would be determined in just those two cites.
I think rural areas should be free to govern their own affairs.
I think Naomi Wolf struggles to find her way in this crazy woke culture, but I believe her heart is in the right place. She has eaten her share of crow in the last few years. To have moved so far to the center right must have been a challenge. I'm willing to extend her some grace.
Yes, for sure. That is one of the reasons why I chose to listen…and why I was disappointed to hear that edgy-lefty style still there, warning all who would speak the wrong words.
But yes, you are absolutely right!
Awww!! Thank you so much for this beautiful acknowledgement, Christopher!! I am deeply honoured. And to be in a community with such warrior women is a blessing beyond any I've known before. xo
A side share...though I did own and read Wolf's The Beauty Myth in my youth, she struck a much deeper chord for me when I discovered this talk of hers along my seeking journey, circa 2008. It's a talk on the process, a blueprint if you will, that is implemented into open societies in order to convert them into fascist police states. She has been on guard and watchful of encroaching tyranny for many years, well before the arrival of Covid. Perhaps you will enjoy...:)
Note: I can't seem to find the original post I first watched in its full-length form but here is a snippet:
https://youtu.be/AlMSyegIPdE?si=VA25RpgO9fNjsIPc
Oh cool—I am adding that to my listening queue. I know there is another kitchen-cleaning in my near future. (If it's not messy now, I'm sure it will be after I cook a rack of ribs later today!) Looking forward to hearing what she says…especially knowing that it had a strong impact on you.
I guess you and I are both coming to a new place, each from what is classically called the left and right. I like this new place.
Keep on truckin'!
Sweet! I watched this talk of hers at the same time I watched Aaron Russo's From Freedom to Fascism. If you haven't seen it, here ya go! I didn't have a TV for many decades and would only watch documentaries. I miss the days when they were so easy to find online, pre-2010.
https://youtu.be/ub2isy55aPI?si=yGoPZyMETuho9N1n
I've really only ever identified as a "seeker" or musician, which is what I shall remain til the end of my days!!
I'll resume editing our podcast now. Have a fantastic day, Christopher!!
I like how we had a conversation—that it wasn't just me talking. I think that will make it interesting for people.
I agree!! :)
However, I may be taking out my parts to get it to a shorter length of time. Ha!! But since you wrote this just now, I'll see what I can do. ;)
Is there a particular reason why it must be a certain length? Joe Rogan has proved that people will watch 16-hour long conversations! :-D
I mean, I know there is some value in being short, but I think you had a lot of cool stuff to say. Might be an interesting experiment to see what people think. If people are good with it, it'll save you editing work in the future :-)
Hahahaha....I hear you! For now, I have two reasons:
One is the amount of my time spent doing it...the zoom call itself and then the editing, rendering, uploading etc...which is all voluntary.
And I'm also thinking of the quantity of info/articles/videos that are are vying for everyone's attention ALL of the time! If I want it to be a thing that catches on and is successful, I was thinking my best bet is to make it a palatable snack vs a more time consuming meal!
But I'm open and flexible to what is best for everybody, ultimately.
I may end up putting it behind a paywall, if it seems there is enough value in it for people to want to support it monetarily. :)
> and hanging out with people at Hampshire College. (If you know, you know.)
I know...
Hampshire, Amherst, the five colleges…the whole Valley! When were you there?
I wasn't, but I had a couple of friends and girlfriends who went there in the 90s, who I knew as postgrads. That was ground zero PoMo for me. And as you rightly say, if it was that bad then...
Such a beautiful area. Great places to hike—tons of parks and stuff. Too bad the memory of the place is also stained with sanctimony!
Me too! Came from Northampton way. A lost cause now...
It was crazy-bad in the early 80s when my older sister went and I visited her. It was crazy-bad in the late 80s/early 90s when my friends went and I was at U-Mass (which was also bad). I cannot even imagine what it is like now. I don't think I would even drive into the area now. They'd probably arrest me for ThoughtCrime or whiteness or something!
When were you there?
Sounds like about the time you visited your sister. I have so many stories but even then, I stood alone in my beliefs. I wrote a letter to the president when the madness began in 2020. Since then, it's gotten so much worse. Have you been following the story of the former Alumnae and employee who was suing the school?
I have not heard about that.
So you were an undergrad there in the early 80s? I am trying to remember the names of all the dorms and mods…Greenwich, Enfield, Prescott?? and two more. Named after the towns drowned when they made the Quabbin reservoir, right?
I have not heard of any of those houses. Perhaps they have renamed them to something more social justice-y. Sigh. Whatever works... Cutter and Ziskind were two - named for donors. Gillette and the sister house Northrup I thought were also named for donors.
Ohhh, you went to Smith! I get it now. I was thinking about Hampshire. Smith was/is even worse!
I’d like to nominate Melissa Petrie of Thinking Man as a warrior woman! @thinkingman
Oh yes, of course! Adding now.
Awesome! Thanks for the support
Cheers!
Thanks Christopher. I am honored.
❤️
Men are not Oppressors everywhere. That simple minded absolutist thinking has gotten us in a world of hurt. Women can be oppressive too, as mothers. That role has no gender bias. It is easy to play the victim. Low hanging fruit. I see it as a major sign of a manipulative person. I view that attitude with great caution. Ms Wolf is so dogmatized, that i generally avoid her. it seems she is not keen on removing the contradictions of her own mind very well. One, now and then is ok. Thank you for reading this so i do not have to. she taakes toooo looooong to get to the point. too many " my feelings" are in the way.
Yes, that echoes my thoughts on her very well. But I was glad I stuck it out long enough to hear that one point of agreement. (As it happens, I was cleaning the kitchen while I listened, so I was a captive audience anyway. Plus, wait…was I doing—gasp!—'woman's work'? 🤣 )
Yes, women can absolutely be oppressors too—as mothers, and as other things as well. We should all try not to oppress anyone!
PS: I just want you to know that when I hike in the woods, I sometimes build little houses for forest fairies. I'm no fool!
Pioneer Valley in the house, and oh man do I know! I thought the local saying was "Where the coffee is strong and so are the women," but the strong women seem to have been struck dumb while gender madness has taken over. I was just at the food co-op which feels like a foreign country now plastered with trans flags (Transmania?), peopled with somber masked shoppers and staff. It's been a sad realization that conformity is a stronger force than liberty for most women. Thanks for recognizing and appreciating the warriors among us!
OMG, you are there NOW? I am so sorry. It was dripping with intolerable sanctimony back in the '80s and '90s. I cannot even imagine what it is like now. Actually, I can kind of imagine…it is the stuff of nightmares.
Too bad, because it is such a beautiful area. And I even saw the northern lights there several times (maybe that explains the lunacy—the magnetic field is thinner in that area!).
It's nutso in the colleges and flatlands, but luckily I spend most of my time in muckboots in the beautiful hills. You can't completely escape the new Puritans anywhere in MA, they've taken over town govt, schools and churches, but I take refuge with the stubborn, independent minded hilltowners. Country folk can survive ;) I will keep an eye out for those lights!
I loved hiking the Quabbin, and all the other beautiful parks and forests. Oh, and I lived on a converted school bus in Wendell 🤣
Thank you for this. I really really appreciate it, on so many levels.
Like a seven layer cake, and every one of them is delicious.
exactly
Yes.
Yes. My time is limited, too.
Born and bred in Southern Georgia, I've known many Steel Magnolias, who maintain femininity and strength in both their public and private life. Strength is respected as well as compassion. Speaking slowly is an advantage. It allows more thinking time per word. Not saying it's better or worse than anyone else. Just the way it is.
Exactly. I saw one rude comment that assumed that strong women lacked having feminine characteristics (and that I must be a "wimp" for liking them). Whoever that guy was, he clearly does not get it.
Or perhaps strength frightens him. I see strong women as an inspiration rather than a threat. Many male writers laud the strength of women in their works. Few laud their weakness,
Right, exactly. I did not even respond to him.
In my opinion, much of how we respond to characteristics in others is set by age 5. If it leads to a happy fulfilled life, Yay! If not, we have work to do. I have work to do in that area and I hope this fellow will find a way to open his perspective a bit. He would find a lot of fun on the other side.
Well said. I have been working on that myself—trying to be the best I can.
And remembering that I had had my moments, especially when I was younger. Remembering that helps me to accept it when other people do it now.
All I sent that didn't get through was a long response to your question of Feb 7 about my four pure theories of justice. I'll be happy to send it to you by email or snail mail.
I cannot guarantee a lengthy response, even though it may deserve one. My time is limited. Are you okay with that?
Sounds cool, ought to check out that interview!
Please do head on over to Jacqueline's Stack and give it a watch, if you can, and please LMK what you think.
Thank you for writing about strong women. I remained unattached for years because I frightened the opposite sex. I finally found someone who valued my strength. On Naomi Wolf, I just read her book, Facing the Beast. It is fairly telling about who she was and who she says she has become. She does a fair amount of 'mea culpa-ing' in it which makes for a satisfying read for those of us who didn't need a pill to recognize the sanctimoniousness of her former circles. However, her astonishment at how accepting and kind her new 'group' is, still feels slightly condescending. And she fails to make the next shift to her former tribe's more ominous conclusions - instead she dwells on the rejection. I can respect her willingness to admit error. But, let's move on, and break through the spell these people are under. Give us your thoughts on next moves. For all her feminist posturing, her writing didn't seem like it was coming from a terribly empowered woman.
Lots could be said in response here.
I am very glad that you finally found a man to match your strength! (A poorly kept secret: I have an Italian grandmother living inside me who just wants everyone to get married and make bambinos.)
Very interesting insights on Wolf and her book.
I wasn't looking to dislike her in that JBP interview. I wasn't even thinking about it. But then as the first few minutes wore on, I started to hear that lefty vibe and it gave me cringey flashbacks. I set it aside so I could hear what they have to say, and it wasn't even that big a deal. But then, come Monday, I felt compelled to mention it anyway. My readers are a pretty broad group, politically, and such things do risk upsetting people. But I really think that we must never forget what the left is, and what it did over the last two centuries. We do so at our very great peril. So I still mention it once in a while, even though it is no longer my primary focus.
To your last sentence…
I wonder at times if leftism is born of trauma, resulting either from circumstances or the vicissitudes of nature. Studies have shown that people on the left are lower in sexual dimorphism (less manly men and less feminine women) than people on the right. That they are less attractive (and that even left-leaning women find conservative men more attractive). That they actually smile less than conservatives. Add in some anger about the unfairness of life's circumstances and you have a ready-made constituency for the left's "we'll get even for you" shtick.
Thoughts?
The anger, oh, the anger. It breeds a burning arrogance and self-righteousness that has taken me completely aback at times. My challenge us to remain calm. As someone with some passion, to the point of being a character flaw from time to time, it's hard to maintain a Sowell-like demeanor.
I hear you. I have been working on taming that passion for my whole life. My wife still occasionally points out that my "enthusiasm" on a subject is causing my voice to increase in volume.🤣
I have mostly succeeded in written communication. I guess I don't get to put it to the test in face-to-face interactions much anymore.
But who has the time for that anyway? It's not a good use of one's time to try to convince a single person of something when you can spend that time making a written argument that is seen by hundreds or thousands.
I tried to answer some questions you asked me several days ago but I was unable to post my comments, perhaps because I was responding late or because my comments were too long. If you still want my answers, send me an email or snail mail address and I'll answer your questions.
Probably just a glitch, but to be safe, you can always break up comments into smaller chunks.
Which questions, by the way? (Lots of comments spinning in my head each day :-)
I don't mind giving you my email address, but I'd rather have conversations of that kind here, so that others can benefit, chime in, etc.